Mister Non Grata: From Blame and Ego to No-Fault Problem Solving

Narrator: 00:00:00

Unlock the secret to transforming your organization's

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problem-solving culture, our unresolved

issues draining your team's productivity.

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Does bringing in external experts

create more attention than solutions.

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It's time for a paradigm shift.

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Introducing Mr.

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NonGrata a revolutionary program

that delves into the heart of

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organizational dynamics to turn

unwelcome problem-solvers and to

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catalysts for collaborative success.

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Join bill Alderson, a veteran

technologist with decades of experience

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resolving high stakes technical

challenges and Michael Rogan.

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A renowned screenwriter and

marketing consultant as they uncover.

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The hidden reasons why

external experts become Mr.

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NonGrata after solving critical problems.

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Powerful strategies for leaders

to foster an inclusive, no fault

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culture that embraces collaboration.

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Insights into overcoming ego

fear and resistance within

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teams to unlock true potential.

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Practical steps to implement best

practices and systemization and

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documentation for lasting success.

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Don't let outdated paradigms

hold your organization back.

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Embrace a new approach that not only

solves problems, but also builds a

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resilient, innovative and engaged team.

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Transform the way you lead.

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Empower your team.

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Redefine success.

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Listen to the first session of Mr.

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NonGrata now, and start your

journey toward a powerful and

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effective organizational culture.

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Ready to change the game.

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Tune into Mr NonGrata and discover how

to turn challenges into opportunities for

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unparalleled growth and collaboration.

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Bill Alderson: /Yeah, so I'm here

with the consultant, the marketing

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consultant, who helped me create

Mister Non Grata out of thin air.

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This is Michael Rogan.

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He is a famous screenwriter and I

really appreciate his assistance.

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Of course, it was very simple for him to

do it because He just has the brilliance

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that just is awaiting some kind of,

it's just awaiting some conversation.

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So anyway I'm Bill Alderson

and I am Mister Non Grata.

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Because I go in and I solve a problem

for some high level leader and all of

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the rank and file Members of the team

resent me because the boss brought me

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in and even if they solved it while I

was on site and it was their assistance,

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it doesn't matter, I get all the credit

because for 12 months they couldn't solve

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the problem and then all of a sudden

we focused on the problem resolution.

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I was the guy hired to come in and

do it and so I get all the credit.

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And of course, they are resentful

because had they been allowed

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all the time, opportunity, etc.,

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they probably would

have solved it as well.

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So it involves, yes, there's some

technology that people need to

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understand, but there's the focus.

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There's the problem statement.

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There's an accuracy of the

problem statement and a consensus

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of the problem statement.

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That has to be done.

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Now, so I end up being Mister Non Grata.

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Not welcome, because why?

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Because I solved the

problem and they didn't.

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Leadership gives me all the credit.

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They're now resentful.

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Boom.

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We have what a recipe

for unhappiness, right?

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And what we want to do is we want to

expose this in these sessions so that we

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can arrive at a paradigm shift where the

leader understands that this happens.

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So when they bring someone in it's great

and fine, but we need to essentially

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lay out everything on the table and let

their team understand what my role is,

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what others roles are, so that we can

truly, no kidding, solve the problem.

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And it's no fault or no

credit kind of thing.

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We're just going to solve it together.

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Michael Rogan: And manage

expectations, right?

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Of your own team.

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There's.

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There's egos and feelings, and

even despite technologists it's,

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they're still somewhat human.

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And by appealing to that, I think a

thought an executive can foresee problems

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ahead, and I'm sure foster a culture

where people are encouraged to point to

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things that aren't working, as opposed

to hiding them, until you show up.

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Bill Alderson: And in actuality, it's like

pulling teeth to get evidence or symptoms

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from people because everyone has an idea

and they all have a different perspective.

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It's like the old story of the elephant

and the definition of the elephant, one

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person touches the trunk, one person

touches the leg, one touches the tail.

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And every one of them seems like the

definition of a different kind of animal.

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But in actuality, it's the same animal.

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That's what we're doing.

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It's just trying to pull all the

different perspectives together to

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come up with a concise consensus, yes.

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Concise consensus.

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of what the problem is, and that

really is how we solve problems.

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Michael Rogan: It just occurred to me

that you're not unlike internal affairs.

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You are very necessary, and

you're resented by every rank and

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file officer in this metaphor.

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And it's, it is pulling teeth trying

to get information, and you're

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seeking the truth, but there's a

lot of obstructions to this truth.

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And it sounds like a little bit

of work before you even hit the

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ground can stave off a lot of future

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conflicts.

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And not only that, I'm persona Non Grata.

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So I have actually literally had

multiple chief information officers

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tell me that the way that they get

their team to solve a problem that

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has been It's a resistant problem.

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A stubborn problem is they say

you guys either solve it by this

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time or I'm bringing in Bill.

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So persona Non Grata,

amplified at that point, right?

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Because yeah, they don't want me to come

in because they know I bruised their ego.

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And the executive allowed all this

to happen and didn't understand the

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paradigm that we were working in.

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So what we're trying to do.

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With the Mister Non Grata podcast is to

help uncover these situations and to grow

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our environment and to help all of us.

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Myself as the incoming facilitator of the

root cause analysis, all the other members

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of the root cause analysis team and the

executive or the leader putting it all

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together in order to arrive at a concise

consensus of what the problem is and then

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work together as a team to resolve it.

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I, when you said that, I was thinking,

boy, if the executive is saying,

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here comes Bill, if not, that puts

you in an impossible situation.

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Oh, here comes the stepdad with

the paddle or something like that.

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And so you are initially met with

resistance or, sluggish responses

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and all that kind of stuff.

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Bill Alderson: People, frankly,

don't want to participate.

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Why?

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Because they know If they provide the

piece of information that helps us

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diagnose the problem, that they're

not going to get credit for it, I am.

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So we need, that's the paradigm

shift that needs to occur.

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Is that In the

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Michael Rogan: executive, which

I really didn't piece together.

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In the executive as well.

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Bill Alderson: So this is a

paradigm that we end up in.

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And I don't know what we would

call the paradigm, but it's the

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it's certainly an ego paradigm.

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It's certainly a negative

team experience paradigm.

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It's not effective.

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And so what we're trying to do is

identify all these elements from

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all the different stories I have and

then say, okay, here's the scenario.

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Here's the story.

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Here's the antagonist.

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Here's the protagonist, here's the

hero, here's the journey, here's

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the whole thing that happened.

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Now, how do we deconstruct that

and find out how to make it a

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positive experience for everyone?

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Michael Rogan: Yeah, it's, love

me a metaphor, but in sports,

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often it's hard to get people

to give up the ego of putting up

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points, or stats, or whatever, and

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It's just natural for all of us and

I'm sure, these egos that come up are

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just self preservation and an instinct.

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And what I'm getting for the first

time, Bill, is that this paradigm

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shift isn't just about the tech, right?

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Because this could have far

reaching implications for

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the culture of a department.

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And a company, right?

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If you are encouraged to help

somebody who comes in to solve the

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problem, you're rewarded for it.

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You're rewarded for saying, that's not

working, and I don't know how to solve it.

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That's actually a good thing.

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Then you're rewarded.

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I'm assuming that the relationship

and the results would probably be

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better and more efficient, right?

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Bill Alderson: Yes.

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In these situations, they put together

what's called a Tiger team or a SWAT team.

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One of the organizations didn't

like the term Tiger or SWAT.

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Because it had various connotations.

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So they called it a Care team.

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A Care team.

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So it, and that was a female leader

who brought in a perspective that was

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different and it was very positive.

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And so we created not just a Care Critical

Problem Resolution Team or a Root Cause

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Team, but we had several different teams.

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To focus on System Documentation,

diagramming dependencies of applications

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and deconstructing so that we knew, gee,

these hundred things have to be working

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perfectly in order for this application to

work or in order for this system to work.

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There are hundreds of things,

identifying what those are and then

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identifying which ones can be at risk

is associated with Business Continuity.

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It's also part of Disaster

Recovery planning, and then it's

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just very smart business sense

to put these things together.

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But these human dynamics, these

psychological human dynamics.

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That occur are something that we

need to take care of and to study.

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Michael Rogan: Because

words matter, right?

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Words matter a lot because

they paint pictures.

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And I'm imagining myself, SWAT team

coming in my fight or flight goes up.

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Just oh, they're going to rush

through and there's a sniper.

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The imagery is there, right?

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And Tigers, I don't want to

have a Tiger in the room.

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It's interesting how that different

perspective that she, that leader had.

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That is obviously what's needed

more in the technology space,

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but it really changes everyone's

frame as the therapists say.

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Reframing something as collaborative

and helpful and creative as opposed

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to instantly confrontational.

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Bill Alderson: Yes.

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Let me tell you about a story.

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I went into this organization

and they had this big problem.

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It was a technical problem and I

did diagnose it with my technical

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prowess, which None of the folks had.

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I do deep packet inspection and you have

to understand ports and protocols and

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systems that most people don't understand.

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It's like under the covers, under the

hood kind of understanding that people

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who are in a role of maintaining or

building a network or a system don't have.

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And so I have those

diagnostic capabilities.

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So it was my diagnostic capabilities

that was the key to this.

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And that's why I get called

in because I have those.

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However, in other cases where

I've just been the facilitator

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of problem resolution.

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Because I have a methodology.

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I have a whole system that I use.

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And so I went into this company.

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There was a big problem.

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We started working and

diagnosing the problem.

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And as we find evidence, or consensus

of evidence, those evidentiary facts

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or findings start coming out and it

begins to create a funnel or create a

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pointer to where we believe the problem

is and it starts to become a consensus

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and it starts to become obvious.

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Oh, It very well could be this over

here that we hadn't anticipated for

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the last three months that we've

had the problem, that's starting

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to point to this type of a thing.

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And in this one situation, it happened to

be a firewall that was in the middle of

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these transactions and were these problems

and the technology is somewhat irrelevant.

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But it was starting to

point to this one firewall.

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Who do you think started becoming

sensitive and on the either the

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manager who was in charge of security

and the firewalls, which is of

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course, or the technologist who

was in charge of those firewalls.

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And in this case, it was the architect

who was in charge of the decision to bring

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in this particular firewall, configure

this firewall for such a purpose.

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So there was a lot of, what would you call

it, buy in, or a lot of, they were dug in.

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It You

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Michael Rogan: would scatter some

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Bill Alderson: pushback.

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It wasn't just pushback.

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It's just they owned that.

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And there was a lot of

what do you call it?

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When you get too close to something,

when you're so heavily invested.

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Yeah.

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So this guy was incredibly heavily

invested and we were really zeroing in.

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And usually in most of these problems, I

have five days and, it's on the third or

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fourth day that it, like all the symptoms

come together, all the analysis, and then.

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And we start to arrive at a

conclusion or a diagnosis.

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And so this guy is out to lunch and he

doesn't come back from lunch for a while.

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And we literally start getting

concerned because we're about to

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convict his firewall of the problem.

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And he was very invested, overly invested.

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He had too big a stake

and lost his perspective.

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He lost his perspective, and

of course he took it personal.

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Instead of just saying, okay.

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So it ended up being that it was a Linux

firewall with a Linux platform, but it

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was the Linux colonel that was at fault.

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It wasn't even the software that we

were running on the Linux platform.

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It was the Linux platform

that had the fault.

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And we diagnosed it, we've proved it,

we took all of the firewall software

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off of the Linux station and had it just

be a router and it did the same thing,

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even without all the firewall stuff.

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So our only alternative was to

buy a Cisco firewall at the time.

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And so we bought a Cisco firewall.

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We put the Cisco firewall in

and boom, got it all running.

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And the problem was completely gone, but

it was there when the Linux firewall was

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in, it was there when we turned off and

re recreated the whole Linux firewall.

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Where it had no firewall software

on it, it was just a router at

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that point, and it still had the

same manifestation of problem.

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So it was a Linux kernel.

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Now, how can this engineer feel

like he is At fault in some way,

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because this is, millions of

people use Linux around the world.

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How can he feel that way, but he was so

invested, and his leadership allowed him

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to be invested, and wasn't identifying

how invested he was, until he didn't

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show up after lunch, he was like an hour

late and we were all saying, whoa, is

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this guy up on the, up on the roof, do

we need to talk him down because no,

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When you're talking about men and their

and it can happen to women as well, it's

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anyone who's over invested in whatever.

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It's very difficult when their own

fingers start pointing back at them.

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And that's just resilience and being able

to accept that we can make a mistake.

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So we just have to own it.

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Michael Rogan: It, I don't know if you

use the term stress test in technology,

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but like you're stress testing a

culture when you come in, and not only

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was he invested, but he was obviously

fearful of being exposed, of being

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vulnerable because he didn't know what

he didn't know but what he also you

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guys didn't know either you weren't

looking to assign blame He just felt

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that he should have known the problem.

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We

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Bill Alderson: were looking to assign

blame, but it wasn't to a person,

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Michael Rogan: right?

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the fact that's a culture that needs to

be instilled and set up before you arrive

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or adjusted to right As in this

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situation, as it's revealed, do you think

that's something the leadership should

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do before someone like yourself arrives?

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Or is that something when you arrive to

have sort of a foundational get together?

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Bill Alderson: That's one of the things

that I would like for some of the outcomes

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of what we're doing with Mister Non Grata

is an outcome that says, Hey, here's.

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Some scenarios where these things

are happening and they're the truth.

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And they're difficult for humans to deal

with and they're also difficult because of

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the adverse feelings or the reticence to

solve the problem because we don't really

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want to know what we don't want to know.

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Michael Rogan: It, this is a

string that could be pulled.

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In a lot of areas of the tech

industry it occurs to me as

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someone who knows nothing about it.

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Bill Alderson: Yeah, like I

said, Mister Non Grata has

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nothing, little or nothing to do.

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It's just that I am this guy who,

like Forrest Gump, has just gotten

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all these calls to go into the wild

to solve critical problems that are

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high visibility, high stakes problems,

and I end up arriving on site.

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And more than my technology is utilized

to help unravel the problem, to work

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our way through the knot hole, right?

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It's soft skills.

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Michael Rogan: I didn't realize you

were an on site therapist as well.

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Bill Alderson: There you go.

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Yeah.

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And I wasn't when I started, but

these things got revealed and then it

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became, oh, wow, we need to make sure.

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Cause one of the things that I always did

after a while is said, look, if I come in,

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we need to have no fault, troubleshooting,

we need to make sure everybody feels open

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and welcome to participate and to help us.

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Because you can't throw me in a

wire closet or over in a room and

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say, solve the problem, Mister

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wizard.

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It doesn't work that way.

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We have to interact with other

people and we have to do it in

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such a way where there is trust.

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So first up is Building the situation.

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: 00:21:02

And I have dozens and dozens of

these type of situations that I

312

: 00:21:07

want to discuss and help people

understand through the experiences

313

: 00:21:12

and through the podcast of Mister

314

: 00:21:13

Non Grata.

315

: 00:21:14

It

316

: 00:21:15

Michael Rogan: seems that the leadership

almost needs the reframe, right?

317

: 00:21:19

Like that, and I'm, I don't know if

you ever experienced this Bill, but

318

: 00:21:24

have you ever come in and leadership

is exactly certain what the problem is?

319

: 00:21:29

Bill Alderson: Let me

give you another example.

320

: 00:21:31

Went into a very large company.

321

: 00:21:33

They called me about two in the afternoon.

322

: 00:21:36

Was in Sacramento at the time.

323

: 00:21:38

I lived up there.

324

: 00:21:39

The company was in San Jose or Sunnyvale.

325

: 00:21:43

And they said, Bill, and I've worked

with them in the past to some degree and

326

: 00:21:48

trained a bunch of their technologists.

327

: 00:21:51

And they called me up about two

o'clock in the afternoon and said,

328

: 00:21:54

Bill, our network, Global Network.

329

: 00:21:56

Network has been down since 11 o'clock.

330

: 00:21:59

This company had Network in its name.

331

: 00:22:03

This company just turned a

billion dollars in revenue.

332

: 00:22:07

Very successful.

333

: 00:22:09

And this company could not take a

phone call, could not take an order,

334

: 00:22:14

could not ship a product, could not

take a support call, could not do

335

: 00:22:20

anything internal, could not send an

email, could not receive an email.

336

: 00:22:26

They were persona Non Grata.

337

: 00:22:30

They could not do anything.

338

: 00:22:32

So I got the call three hours

after this had occurred.

339

: 00:22:37

And I said, Bill, can you help us?

340

: 00:22:39

And I said, sure, it'll take me, I'll

have to take me 30 minutes to get down

341

: 00:22:43

to the airport where my airplane is.

342

: 00:22:45

I'll hop in the airplane.

343

: 00:22:46

I'll fly down.

344

: 00:22:47

That'll take about 30 minutes.

345

: 00:22:49

I said, it'll take me about altogether.

346

: 00:22:53

An hour and a half to two hours to

get to San Jose airport to drive

347

: 00:22:56

up to, this company in Sunnyvale

and help solve the problem.

348

: 00:23:02

And so I did, and I

guess it was probably 4.

349

: 00:23:05

30, maybe 5 by the time I

got there, a couple of hours.

350

: 00:23:09

And I walk in and I had my equipment

and then the team is all there.

351

: 00:23:14

There's a hundred people in this company

in a war room and they're trying another.

352

: 00:23:22

method of rebooting all of their

network switches in a different order.

353

: 00:23:29

Because when they turn them all on

at the same time, it didn't work.

354

: 00:23:33

When they turned these on first and

those on second, it didn't work.

355

: 00:23:37

When they turned those on first

and those on second, they were

356

: 00:23:41

about to reboot all of the switches

and routers in another order.

357

: 00:23:47

Does that ever

358

: 00:23:47

Michael Rogan: work?

359

: 00:23:48

Bill Alderson: Never.

360

: 00:23:49

I shouldn't say never.

361

: 00:23:50

Sometimes.

362

: 00:23:52

When it's that big of a

problem We're reaching

363

: 00:23:54

Michael Rogan: the broad bottom

of the barrel of solutions.

364

: 00:23:56

Yeah.

365

: 00:23:56

Yeah.

366

: 00:23:57

Bill Alderson: It's Non scientific.

367

: 00:23:58

It's just yeah.

368

: 00:24:00

So they said we're about to do this and

we've all agreed and have a consensus

369

: 00:24:05

that this is what we're going to do and

we believe it's gonna solve the problem.

370

: 00:24:10

I said do you, are you sure?

371

: 00:24:12

Is there any scientific

evidence or anything?

372

: 00:24:15

No.

373

: 00:24:16

And I said why don't

you let me take a look?

374

: 00:24:19

And they said how long will it take you?

375

: 00:24:20

And I said I'd need to power up my Network

analyzer and hook it to your network and

376

: 00:24:27

turn it on for 10 minutes and then take a

look and I have some ideas on what to look

377

: 00:24:32

for because I've got a lot of experience.

378

: 00:24:35

Michael Rogan: This isn't my first rodeo.

379

: 00:24:37

Bill Alderson: This isn't my first rodeo.

380

: 00:24:39

So I, they said, okay, we'll give

you, we'll give you 20 minutes.

381

: 00:24:45

So they gave me 20 minutes, I turned it

on, I turned on my analyzer, I plugged

382

: 00:24:51

it into their network, I looked at

a few packets and I said, turn this

383

: 00:24:56

parameter on, on every, they had, it

was a big campus, about 10 buildings.

384

: 00:25:02

And they had network

links between all of 'em.

385

: 00:25:05

And they couldn't go out

internationally, they couldn't come in.

386

: 00:25:08

Everything was down.

387

: 00:25:10

And said, put this parameter on

the configuration, turn 'em on,

388

: 00:25:16

go in and configure and put this

mass change on every port of every

389

: 00:25:23

switch, put this parameter on.

390

: 00:25:25

And one of the technologists came over

and said, bill, this isn't gonna work.

391

: 00:25:31

Because, when we tried some of that in the

past, OSPF stopped working when we did it.

392

: 00:25:38

And I said sure seems like right now, OSPF

and a lot of other things aren't working.

393

: 00:25:45

I'm a theorist.

394

: 00:25:46

So I said, put those parameters, if

you don't want to do it, it's fine.

395

: 00:25:50

I'm not going to force you.

396

: 00:25:52

But if you want to do what the theorists,

the scientific, if you want to, if you

397

: 00:25:56

want to do it scientifically, put this

parameter on every port of every switch.

398

: 00:26:01

So they went ahead and did it.

399

: 00:26:02

It was a spanning tree parameter.

400

: 00:26:04

They put it on every port of

every switch, turned it up.

401

: 00:26:07

And then I said, and then turn them on.

402

: 00:26:09

Is there a certain order?

403

: 00:26:11

And I said, no, just.

404

: 00:26:12

After you get that parameter, turn one

on, configure it, turn the next one

405

: 00:26:17

on, configure it, turn the next one

on, configure it, and and then, and

406

: 00:26:23

then after all that parameter is on

every port of every switch in every

407

: 00:26:27

building, I said it's all going to

come up and work, and by golly, it did.

408

: 00:26:32

So the Chief Information

Officer comes over to me.

409

: 00:26:36

And I knew what he was looking for.

410

: 00:26:38

He wanted to know who to blame.

411

: 00:26:40

Michael Rogan: I want a name.

412

: 00:26:44

Bill Alderson: And I

said, thou art the man.

413

: 00:26:48

Just like, Nathan said to King David

after he was caught stealing Bethsheba.

414

: 00:26:55

I said, thou art the man,

you're the one who did this.

415

: 00:26:59

And he says, what do you mean?

416

: 00:27:00

I said you have no network documentation

that's really materially beneficial,

417

: 00:27:05

so they couldn't see the effect of

not having these parameters on because

418

: 00:27:11

they were not able to visualize

something so big and complex.

419

: 00:27:15

Because it wasn't on paper to where

they could, like a, a construction

420

: 00:27:20

an architect does drawings and

drafting in order to build a building.

421

: 00:27:25

And if you have no architecture diagrams,

no blueprints, you can't solve it.

422

: 00:27:34

I said and you're the one who

is the technology leader, right?

423

: 00:27:40

Chief information officer.

424

: 00:27:42

You're the.

425

: 00:27:43

Technology Management Leader, and

this falls into technology management.

426

: 00:27:49

You didn't have the proper

network visibility and diagrams.

427

: 00:27:54

And so Did you get a hug

428

: 00:27:56

Michael Rogan: afterwards?

429

: 00:27:57

Bill Alderson: No, but I got a 100,

000 purchase order on my desk Monday.

430

: 00:28:00

Hello.

431

: 00:28:02

And then that company was now known

for having Spectacular network

432

: 00:28:08

documentation and systems and you'd

go in to the network area for all the

433

: 00:28:13

network engineers and their diagrams

were up on every cubicle wall and

434

: 00:28:17

some of them went 10, 15, 20 feet.

435

: 00:28:20

True story.

436

: 00:28:21

And I'll bet

437

: 00:28:23

Michael Rogan: they're not going to

have a configuration problem again.

438

: 00:28:26

Bill Alderson: Maybe they will, but the

issue is that We solved that problem

439

: 00:28:31

and we solved a whole lot of other

problems because now they had the song

440

: 00:28:35

sheet from which everyone could sing

and understand and visualize the system.

441

: 00:28:40

So those are best practices that they

should have had that they didn't have.

442

: 00:28:44

And it wasn't some technologist who

didn't configure something right.

443

: 00:28:48

It was because they could, it was too big.

444

: 00:28:51

They couldn't see it until it

was on paper and they could

445

: 00:28:55

trace lines and understand it.

446

: 00:28:58

Michael Rogan: So you're How often do you

find in these gigs where you come in and

447

: 00:29:03

do this, that you're not just fixing a

problem, but you're fixing what they call

448

: 00:29:09

the problem under the problem, right?

449

: 00:29:11

How many times did you find that

you had to actually best practices?

450

: 00:29:17

I have a

451

: 00:29:18

Bill Alderson: diagram of a tree and the

tree is on the top and that's operations.

452

: 00:29:23

And down below is the trunk, and the

trunk goes into the ground, and then

453

: 00:29:30

the ground shows the roots, and that the

initial root cause of the problem was

454

: 00:29:35

a technology problem, which we fixed.

455

: 00:29:38

But down below, the root cause

was due to poor systemization,

456

: 00:29:47

poor technology management.

457

: 00:29:51

Those are best practices.

458

: 00:29:52

How often does that occur?

459

: 00:29:54

Almost every single time.

460

: 00:29:56

Oh yeah.

461

: 00:29:57

Identify the root cause, not only

to the technology problem, but how

462

: 00:30:02

did that technology problem exist in

did we not have good change control?

463

: 00:30:07

Did we not, there's just a million things

and I have dozens of stories that I can.

464

: 00:30:13

Explain exactly in the same venue

that point to the system management

465

: 00:30:20

and why the root cause that was

technical wasn't truly only technical,

466

: 00:30:26

it was managerial and leadership.

467

: 00:30:28

Michael Rogan: Sounds like

you're, and people who are

468

: 00:30:31

following this paradigm, right?

469

: 00:30:33

They're solving problems

they weren't hired to solve.

470

: 00:30:35

Yeah.

471

: 00:30:35

They're coming in and, Just like when

someone comes to a therapist and says,

472

: 00:30:40

The problem is the person at home.

473

: 00:30:42

The problem is the person not here.

474

: 00:30:45

And I'm sure the therapist is, huh.

475

: 00:30:47

Okay.

476

: 00:30:48

Let's unpack that one.

477

: 00:30:50

Bill Alderson: And the therapist is, if

you've ever had therapy, they're always

478

: 00:30:54

trying, when you're trying to focus

on the reason is my boss, my wife, my

479

: 00:31:01

friend, or somebody else, or And not

focusing on what you can, you have power

480

: 00:31:09

over and you can control, which is you.

481

: 00:31:12

Michael Rogan: Yeah.

482

: 00:31:13

Another, a completely different

market, the implications were there

483

: 00:31:16

was a day of no productivity, but

you think of a company like Boeing.

484

: 00:31:20

Which seem to have a culture of finger

pointing and hide, it seems from what I

485

: 00:31:27

Speaker 2: I didn't know if I

could bring it up, but sure,

486

: 00:31:29

yeah, go ahead, Mister Non Grata.

487

: 00:31:31

Bill Alderson: I go to a defense

contractor , and I'm training about

488

: 00:31:34

30 people in how to analyze their

computer network, and in doing

489

: 00:31:40

so, we use their computer network

for some of our analysis tasks.

490

: 00:31:47

So that they would know how to

analyze their computer network,

491

: 00:31:50

not the generic computer network.

492

: 00:31:55

And so during this analysis,

I said, okay let's go find all

493

: 00:32:00

of these distributed sniffers.

494

: 00:32:02

And there was a certain mechanism to find

these servers and so I told them how to

495

: 00:32:08

do it and they went out and found out

and they said, Oh, I found one over here.

496

: 00:32:12

I found one over here.

497

: 00:32:13

I found it on the network.

498

: 00:32:15

And it's okay, now let's

try and connect to it.

499

: 00:32:18

So they tried to connect to it.

500

: 00:32:19

And the bottom line was.

501

: 00:32:22

And, is that there, there

are passwords for this system

502

: 00:32:27

that come with the default.

503

: 00:32:29

The default password was NGC, and

I knew it, and everybody knew it.

504

: 00:32:34

And we found one, and we tried to

log into it, and we put in NGC, and

505

: 00:32:38

by golly, we got into a sniffer.

506

: 00:32:40

The sniffer allows you to look at

all the packets on the network.

507

: 00:32:44

One of those sniffers, the part of

the system that allows you to log

508

: 00:32:49

into it was actually on the internet.

509

: 00:32:51

But it allowed you to see the

packets on the inside of the network.

510

: 00:32:57

So that means anyone on the internet

could connect to that distributed

511

: 00:33:02

sniffer and then looking at it and

capturing it could see what's on the

512

: 00:33:08

inside network at a defense contractor.

513

: 00:33:11

So I said, halt, stop

everything immediately.

514

: 00:33:17

Don't do anything else.

515

: 00:33:19

We have got to call your security

department and bring them in here and

516

: 00:33:24

go find out who those sniffers belong

to and you need to change it right now

517

: 00:33:29

because that is the biggest security

violation that there possibly could be.

518

: 00:33:34

Which means that you're allowing somebody

to get to a sniffer on the internet

519

: 00:33:38

that is looking at and capturing all the

packets on the inside of your network.

520

: 00:33:43

So they call up security.

521

: 00:33:44

Security comes down and the first thing

that they want to do is they want to . The

522

: 00:33:49

short of being me, being arrested, they

literally, no kidding, wanted to escort

523

: 00:33:57

me out because I found this security hole.

524

: 00:34:01

Mister Non Grata?

525

: 00:34:03

Yeah.

526

: 00:34:04

Why?

527

: 00:34:05

They didn't find it.

528

: 00:34:07

I found it.

529

: 00:34:08

It embarrassed them.

530

: 00:34:09

Michael Rogan: Embarrassed them.

531

: 00:34:10

Bill Alderson: So what

did they want to do?

532

: 00:34:12

They wanted to shoot the messenger.

533

: 00:34:14

So 20 of these people in the class.

534

: 00:34:17

Who had a deep respect for what

I had taught them already said,

535

: 00:34:24

you escort him out and I quit.

536

: 00:34:26

Yeah, it was that bad.

537

: 00:34:28

So the security people backed

off, everything backed off.

538

: 00:34:33

They went and found those sniffers.

539

: 00:34:35

They.

540

: 00:34:36

Reconfigured or got them out and boom.

541

: 00:34:39

And but that's the story.

542

: 00:34:41

That is a defense contractor Corporation.

543

: 00:34:43

I was just

544

: 00:34:43

Michael Rogan: gonna say,

it's a good thing that they

545

: 00:34:44

cleaned up their act, right?

546

: 00:34:46

It's, yeah.

547

: 00:34:48

It sounds like the same kind of stuff.

548

: 00:34:50

Bill Alderson: That's going on right now.

549

: 00:34:51

Right.

550

: 00:34:52

Bottom line is, these sort of things

happen and do you see how anecdotal

551

: 00:34:57

all these pro, I could go on for

days talking about my experience in

552

: 00:35:03

military environments, in top secret

environments in, in small corporations,

553

: 00:35:09

in healthcare organizations.

554

: 00:35:11

You name it.

555

: 00:35:12

Dozens and dozens of these exact

type of examples where I became

556

: 00:35:19

Mister Non Grata.

557

: 00:35:21

Not welcome.

558

: 00:35:23

We don't like.

559

: 00:35:24

We want to kill the messenger.

560

: 00:35:27

Michael Rogan: And it sounds like

you're empowered to help future

561

: 00:35:31

network professionals like yourself

to avoid that same sort of It's

562

: 00:35:37

Bill Alderson: not just for me.

563

: 00:35:39

It's for the rank and file, But like

you said, it does, it is, it becomes

564

: 00:35:45

incumbent upon the leadership who

is quote unquote technology leaders.

565

: 00:35:52

And sadly, when the internet and all

this networking stuff grew from zero to

566

: 00:35:59

huge, very, in a very short period of

time, we pulled in a lot of leaders from

567

: 00:36:04

other areas, and they weren't technical,

necessarily, and so they didn't know how

568

: 00:36:09

to They didn't know what best practices

were for systemization of technology.

569

: 00:36:17

They didn't know what these things

were to have diagrams, to have

570

: 00:36:20

SWAT teams, to have Tiger teams,

to have all of these mechanisms.

571

: 00:36:25

They didn't know it.

572

: 00:36:26

So consequently, they had to learn

on the job and that's what I ended

573

: 00:36:31

up doing for 44 years is finding

all of those type of occasions.

574

: 00:36:37

And now I have all of this

and I'm Wanting through Mister

575

: 00:36:40

Non Grata to help the, my environments

and leaders and followers and

576

: 00:36:48

that sort of thing, come up and

understand and have a more functional.

577

: 00:36:52

It's a functional environment as

opposed to a dysfunctional environment.

578

: 00:36:56

Michael Rogan: Have you found

that some of the soft skill stuff

579

: 00:36:59

that you have to on site massage?

580

: 00:37:03

Bill Alderson: First of all,

I'm a hardcore technologist.

581

: 00:37:06

Michael Rogan: Yeah, oh yeah,

582

: 00:37:07

Bill Alderson: no, of course.

583

: 00:37:07

Hardcore.

584

: 00:37:08

Yeah.

585

: 00:37:08

My skills I don't know who

this side of you is right now.

586

: 00:37:11

My, my skills are very hard skills,

but through these experiences, using

587

: 00:37:17

my hard skills, I uncovered all of the

needs for these soft skills, and some

588

: 00:37:23

of them are systemization methods,

best practices, what do you need, and

589

: 00:37:28

then secondarily, how do you, I think

you said it earlier, it's the culture.

590

: 00:37:35

How do you set the culture as a leader,

or even as a follower, or as a sub leader?

591

: 00:37:41

Michael Rogan: And I can see that if I

was a hardcore tech person, which I'm not,

592

: 00:37:45

that if the leadership, the CTO or CIO.

593

: 00:37:50

Was him or herself afraid of being

exposed because they don't know as much

594

: 00:37:55

as they probably should have been to

be in that chair, that everyone else

595

: 00:38:01

isn't a little bit of a just don't want

to be exposed for what they don't know.

596

: 00:38:05

Bill Alderson: All of those things

are so powerful in our world.

597

: 00:38:09

Yeah.

598

: 00:38:10

It's, and it starts with what is

that thing that people say, it's,

599

: 00:38:15

uh, where you don't think you know

anything or you're not qualified.

600

: 00:38:19

What is the term for that?

601

: 00:38:21

To

602

: 00:38:21

Michael Rogan: be, oh,

the Peter Principle?

603

: 00:38:22

Not

604

: 00:38:22

the Peter Principle, but the,

it's a psychological term, it's

605

: 00:38:26

a when you're fake, you're not

real you're something syndrome.

606

: 00:38:33

It's It's like Suga.

607

: 00:38:34

Impostor Syndrome?

608

: 00:38:35

Impostor Syndrome.

609

: 00:38:37

That's it.

610

: 00:38:37

Where you get It's Impostor Syndrome!

611

: 00:38:39

And what's funny is, like, all these

different industries, healthcare, military

612

: 00:38:44

Bill Alderson: You name

it, it doesn't matter.

613

: 00:38:45

They

614

: 00:38:46

Michael Rogan: all think they have

unique, personal problems that no

615

: 00:38:49

one else can solve, and it sounds

like There are as many human problems

616

: 00:38:54

sometimes as technology problems.

617

: 00:38:56

Bill Alderson: Yes.

618

: 00:38:57

Vis a vis the guy we were afraid

was on the roof, ready to jump

619

: 00:39:01

off because he was over invested.

620

: 00:39:04

And he probably had to sell that solution.

621

: 00:39:07

And he was very proud of that

solution and was proud of it

622

: 00:39:12

regularly at his reviews and letting

all the other technologists know.

623

: 00:39:18

He saved the company, a quarter of

a million dollars by using Linux

624

: 00:39:23

firewalls instead of Cisco firewalls.

625

: 00:39:26

So it repeatedly and he was rewarded for

that repeatedly and now all of a sudden

626

: 00:39:34

this thing that he was so proud of was

now the cause of three months worth of

627

: 00:39:42

dysfunction because that company had

to move files for across the nation.

628

: 00:39:47

This company was actually a printing.

629

: 00:39:49

It wasn't a printing organization.

630

: 00:39:51

They did marketing and graphics, but

you know how you get in your newspaper,

631

: 00:39:56

you get inserts and they have Target,

Walmart they did the Target and Walmart

632

: 00:40:02

insertions, but you didn't print all

of those, for instance, in Chicago and

633

: 00:40:08

put them on trucks to ship, a million

pounds around the nation in order

634

: 00:40:13

to put them in all the newspapers.

635

: 00:40:15

What do you do?

636

: 00:40:16

You.

637

: 00:40:17

You transfer files from Chicago

around the nation and then the

638

: 00:40:23

printers print them locally.

639

: 00:40:26

They couldn't do it.

640

: 00:40:28

Couldn't send the files because

this particular firewall was kept

641

: 00:40:32

killing the session and it would

die before the file was complete.

642

: 00:40:37

And they had to resort to

putting all these files on DVDs.

643

: 00:40:43

And initially they put people on

airplanes to fly them out to L.

644

: 00:40:47

A.

645

: 00:40:48

and Seattle and Miami in

order to get the files there.

646

: 00:40:52

And then they ended up just shipping

them, FedExing them when they were done.

647

: 00:40:57

That happened for three months

648

: 00:41:01

because they couldn't do a file

transfer because of this firewall.

649

: 00:41:05

That was costly.

650

: 00:41:08

And everyone in the company knew it.

651

: 00:41:10

It was a big problem.

652

: 00:41:11

When we diagnosed it and then solved it,

and this guy was like the hero for having

653

: 00:41:17

saved the company a quarter of a million

dollars, but now He cost a two bill.

654

: 00:41:23

Oh, he cost millions more.

655

: 00:41:25

Michael Rogan: Yeah.

656

: 00:41:26

Bill Alderson: Yeah.

657

: 00:41:27

And these are the sort of intrinsic

things that happen if you don't have

658

: 00:41:33

understanding of technology management, of

how to go about how to prevent the Mister

659

: 00:41:40

Non Grata.

660

: 00:41:42

Michael Rogan: Seems like there's a lot

of noses being cut off to spite the face.

661

: 00:41:45

Yeah.

662

: 00:41:46

There's a, but it is just a

naturally human reaction to get

663

: 00:41:50

a little defensive and, exactly.

664

: 00:41:52

Status is important, reputation,

and there's a lot of mistakes.

665

: 00:41:56

Bill Alderson: This has been a very

interesting conversation, Michael Rogan.

666

: 00:41:59

I really appreciate your help and look

forward to additional conversations.

667

: 00:42:05

I know that you're not particularly

a technologist in this arena but you.

668

: 00:42:13

Now understand how these things can

happen and you don't have to have all

669

: 00:42:17

my technology understanding because the

story stands on its own, doesn't it?

670

: 00:42:22

It

671

: 00:42:22

Michael Rogan: also is a little

bit refreshing to hear that

672

: 00:42:26

despite the Machine aspect or the

tech aspect of all these things,

673

: 00:42:31

there are still human problems.

674

: 00:42:33

Bill Alderson: Yes.

675

: 00:42:34

And it gives us all hope that we can

be part of the process of improving.

676

: 00:42:38

Michael Rogan: Because if it's a human

problem, that same approach could work in

677

: 00:42:41

a medical hospital setting and aeronautics

and whatever this is over here.

678

: 00:42:46

This paradigm.

679

: 00:42:48

This Mister Non Grata paradigm

has many applications and people

680

: 00:42:54

who hear this will understand and

apply it in many different areas.

681

: 00:42:58

But like I was telling you, my

desire is to create, diagrams that

682

: 00:43:03

we can show how this works, the steps

through which people take and where

683

: 00:43:09

they find themselves in the process.

684

: 00:43:11

Mister Non Grata Paradigm Story

or The Journey, and then educate

685

: 00:43:16

people in ways to avoid these things

or to fully embrace them as great

686

: 00:43:24

leverage tools to improve the culture.

687

: 00:43:28

There's a, I remember a story where

I think Ford Motor Company was trying

688

: 00:43:32

to pull some management practices from

Japan, the Kaizen Six Sigma stuff.

689

: 00:43:38

And they were like that, we

want to constantly improve,

690

: 00:43:41

that, that kind of thing.

691

: 00:43:42

And they put up a thing that said

for a hundred dollars, you put

692

: 00:43:47

in a suggestion of something that

would improve and you could win a

693

: 00:43:49

hundred dollars and nobody put it in.

694

: 00:43:52

There just was no, then

they lowered it to 5.

695

: 00:43:55

And everybody was throwing it in.

696

: 00:43:58

And what they found was that people

got little bit overwhelmed and anxious.

697

: 00:44:03

Do I have a 100 worth idea?

698

: 00:44:07

But everybody's got a 5.

699

: 00:44:09

Heck that's improving the

faucet on the bathroom.

700

: 00:44:11

Bill Alderson: I think that is where

the organization that is now the

701

: 00:44:16

gig economy, which is called Fiverr.

702

: 00:44:18

com came from.

703

: 00:44:22

Michael Rogan: You think so?

704

: 00:44:23

Oh gosh, I didn't even think about it.

705

: 00:44:24

Yeah, that's pretty good.

706

: 00:44:26

That's pretty good.

707

: 00:44:28

Yeah.

708

: 00:44:28

Bill, I thank you so much for

every time I have a conversation

709

: 00:44:32

with you about technology.

710

: 00:44:34

I always feel like I'm closer to

getting my Masters of Science in stuff

711

: 00:44:39

that I don't know how to pronounce.

712

: 00:44:41

Bill Alderson: Thanks again, Michael.

713

: 00:44:42

Look forward to talking to you again.

714

: 00:44:44

Thank you, Bill.